Curse

Carinae · Apr 25, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Respectable damage + Huge amount of healling power + energy management + utility from 5 energy spells = strong support character.

Exactly. Plus you are probably running 3 or more smiters. Oh, and they deal double damage to undead (which is the only place you'd run them anyway)

The complaint was baseless.

Kwan Xi · Apr 25, 2008, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

The OP was asking for something that is gimped and a burden to the party. There is no such thing as a good direct damage dealing build for monks unless you bring some assassin skills, and even then, it's not that great.

If you truly believe there are no good direct damage builds for a smite monk then I don't see why your wasting time here then.

Do Warriors usually damage enemies by targeting allies? Do Elementalists damage enemies by casting their spells on allies? So would you expect a Smite monk wanting to do damage to use only Smiter's Boon skills?

Posting Support and Smiter's Boon builds is going off topic from the subject and not what the OP is asking for. Just because those skills that work with Smiter's Boon are Smite skills doesn't mean they work the same as the rest of the smite line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

I don't understand you when you say this build isn't terrible, when you also state that "your DPS will be drastically low because of the recharge of your skills" and "you're going to find yourself doing a lot of wanding".

Because those are SUPPORT builds NOT DAMAGE DEALING builds. The builds aren't terrible in fulfilling a support role but they aren't damage roles which is what the OP is asking for. In terms of direct damage your not going to be doing much of that with those builds.

farmpig · Apr 25, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Just hit 19 wins in TA running this alongside an HC monk with balanced stance. Fun stuff.

[build prof=Mo/A smiting=12+1 divinefavor=12+1+1][reversal of damage][smite condition][smite hex][castigation signet][boon signet][divine boon][smiter's boon][resurrection signet][/build]

If you're the primary monk, the rez is dropped for [judge's intervention] for a second fast heal.

I played with CoP, but it's incredibly energy heavy, and I had no use for it with both of the spotless skills on me.

You could probably get by with a single energy management skill, but spamming is fun.

It's faster acting than an HC monk, so spikes are easier to deal with, and all the smites prevent warriors from frenzying in your face. It's particularly fun to throw up judge's intervention when you're about to die, as it'll explode in a warrior's face, dealing 320 damage if he's in frenzy. You'll also get a lot of kills against pets, since enemy monks won't heal them.

I like the idea of this build lets hope it works in pve too.

Carinae · Apr 25, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Because those are SUPPORT builds NOT DAMAGE DEALING builds. The builds aren't terrible in fulfilling a support role but they aren't damage roles which is what the OP is asking for. In terms of direct damage your not going to be doing much of that with those builds.

No. They are damage dealing builds that double as support+healing.

Monks are NOT warriors, nor are they elementalists. I don't see "Smiting Fireball" in there, do you? The smiting line does not have powerful direct damage builds.

You can either run smiting enchantments that you cast on melee characters (Balthazar's Aura, Judge's Insight, Zealot's Fire, ...) OR you can run a lousy signet based build and deal fairly lousy damage OR you can run Smite Hex, Smite Condition and RoD.

The last combo there is your best option, by far.

@14 Smiting/13 DF:
Smite Hex deals 160 AoE damage in the area - every 12s.
Smite Condition deals 114 AoE damage in the area - every 7s.
Reversal of Fortune deals 160 DD damage - every 3s.

AND you get a 138 point heal
AND you remove a hex/condition/reverse damage
ALL for 5e (for free if Divine Spirit is up)

Stick that on 3+ Smiting Monks and ROLL through ANYPLACE with undead. The condition that an enemy must be in the area is trivial to meet. Trivial!!!

Why would you WANT to run DD anyway, since you can deal MORE damage WITH healing+support at the same time?

Kale Ironfist · Apr 25, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

No. They are damage dealing builds that double as support+healing

Given the requirements, I'd say they are support builds that double as damage dealing, since the damage isn't guaranteed until the condition is fulfilled. The heals aren't strong for the skill bar requirement, but it's provided in addition to the support with barely any extra cost, which is what makes it fairly strong for what it does.

horseradish · Apr 25, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

If you truly believe there are no good direct damage builds for a smite monk then I don't see why your wasting time here then.

Do Warriors usually damage enemies by targeting allies? Do Elementalists damage enemies by casting their spells on allies? So would you expect a Smite monk wanting to do damage to use only Smiter's Boon skills?

Posting Support and Smiter's Boon builds is going off topic from the subject and not what the OP is asking for. Just because those skills that work with Smiter's Boon are Smite skills doesn't mean they work the same as the rest of the smite line.

So by your logic, it's better to do minimal direct damage skills rather than to support the group while dealing respectable AoE damage. Right....

Your comparison of monks with warriors and eles is flawed. Those three professions are completely different and imcomparable for obvious reasons that you can't see.

The support build is not off topic. It's the most on topic one can get without resorting to P.O.S. DD Smite builds, which (to you) is the only way to deal damage as a monk.

Quote:

Because those are SUPPORT builds NOT DAMAGE DEALING builds. The builds aren't terrible in fulfilling a support role but they aren't damage roles which is what the OP is asking for. In terms of direct damage your not going to be doing much of that with those builds.

The OP only stated a build that can do damage.

Dual Boon monks can do damage.

Damage only builds are not viable for monks, and frankly, a waste of a monk.

Get that through your head.

Besides, what would you take?

A. Crappy DD smite monk.

B. Offensive AND Defensive support monk.

I'd take the latter.

zling · Apr 25, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

you can get a pure smiter with Ray of Judgment/Signet of Judgment/Word of Censure along with Banish, Bane Signet, Castagion Signet, etc but that will really suck. the Smite line has a lot of awful skills, and a few good ones. the good ones fit in a SUPPORT build like Castagion Signet, Smite Hex, Smite Condition, Smiter's Boon, Reversal of Damage, etc. they still deal a good amount of damage but also fill a support roll. think of it like a Support Channeling/Restoration Hybrid Ritualist. some Restoration Healing power along with Ancestor's Rage+Splinter Weapon damage.

Tyla · Apr 25, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Because those are SUPPORT builds NOT DAMAGE DEALING builds. The builds aren't terrible in fulfilling a support role but they aren't damage roles which is what the OP is asking for. In terms of direct damage your not going to be doing much of that with those builds.

Support > pure damage, I'll leave it at that.
Playing a support role implies you have strengths in offense, and defense, which builds a powerful character.

Magikarp · Apr 25, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

ok and to just summarize, this thread is now official cut, cooked, and served, so lets just not keep recapping the same 2 points over and over lol

Dr Strangelove · Apr 25, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmpig

I like the idea of this build lets hope it works in pve too.

It's an excellent hero build, since it has absurd energy management and is spamtastic. Losing prot spirit hurts, but it's nice that they never run out of energy.

In PvP, it's nice to be immune to interrupts, daze, and most energy denial. The damage isn't great, but who cares, that's not the primary purpose of the build.

On the rare occasions that I actually want damage smiters (Shards of Orr) I run 2 ray of judgment monks and a sig of judgment mesmer. The rest of their bar doesn't matter that much, since the idea is to end every fight within a few seconds.

Kwan Xi · Apr 25, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

ugh ok I give up everyone that wants to run Smiter's Boon only you guys win ok? This is just going to end up wasting my time and I'm not putting more energy into this discussion. The OP is probably doesn't care anymore so I in turn no longer care either.

I'm going to remind everyone again I have no problem with Smiters Boon.
I use Smiter's boon builds myself, they work really well. They are not Direct damage, damage doesn't always happen when you cast your spells on allies.

I already posted my damage smite build on this thread already (in case you guys missed it). So yeah I have nothing else useful to contribute anymore.

For PuGs right now this is what it normally comes to:

Healer/Protect Monk > Smiter's Boon Monk

Except in Shards of Orr but even then Heal/Protect Monks are priority.

Tyla · Apr 25, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Healer/Protect Monk > Smiter's Boon Monk

Actually Smiter's Boon is the Monk's version of Restoration / Channeling Rit, if you ask me.
It actually does work quite nicely though...

(And PuG's use HB Monks...

)

Kwan Xi · Apr 25, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Actually Smiter's Boon is the Monk's version of Restoration / Channeling Rit, if you ask me.
It actually does work quite nicely though...

(And PuG's use HB Monks...

)

Ok more specific then:

Heal Monk, Protect Monk, WoH Hybrid Monk, HB monk, and any other monk build I missed > Smiter's Boon and/or Smite Monk

Actually this is why I'm done with this thread, Why should I continue to waste time Arguing over a type of monk that will generally never be accepted into your normal everyday PuG in the first place?

Tyla · Apr 25, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Ok more specific then:

Heal Monk, Protect Monk, WoH Hybrid Monk, HB monk, and any other monk build I missed > Smiter's Boon Monk

Actually this is why I'm done with this thread, Why should I continue to waste time Arguing over a type of monk that will generally never be accepted into your normal everyday PuG in the first place?

PuG's are bad, why am I explaining this anyway?
PuG's being bad is common knowledge.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 25, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

In terms of efficiency, it's really quite powerful at red bars go up. It plays most like a [healer's covenant] guy, for the immunity to most interrupts and super happy fun spam time.

A souped up reversal of damage heals for 45+45+57 at 14 DF, for a total of 147. It will also negate up to 66 damage, so you'll max out around 213. It casts and takes effect in 1/4 second, so it's pretty nifty against spikes. As a bonus, you get to watch yellow numbers pop up. By contrast, pre-nerf patient spirit hit 112+42 for 154 after 2 seconds. So really, not a bad deal.

Your biggest weaknesses are no PS/SB, and no party healing. In TA, neither of those are a huge problem, especially if you're running dual monks. In PvE, I tend to run my rit, so I have party healing covered. Heroes suck with PS, so I'm not losing out that much there.

Turbobusa · Apr 25, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I like to use aura of faith on those bars, for the lulz

horseradish · Apr 25, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwan Xi

Ok more specific then:

Heal Monk, Protect Monk, WoH Hybrid Monk, HB monk, and any other monk build I missed > Smiter's Boon and/or Smite Monk

Actually this is why I'm done with this thread, Why should I continue to waste time Arguing over a type of monk that will generally never be accepted into your normal everyday PuG in the first place?

IIRC, we were comparing the DD smite monk over the Boon monk. Where did the other monk builds come in?

You're not being more specific. You're being off-topic.

On-Topic: The Smite support build > the DD smite monk

farmpig · Apr 27, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Well lol i was kick out of a pug party because i was not running the cookie cutter HB build lol...

Keekles · Apr 27, 2008, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmpig

Well lol i was kick out of a pug party because i was not running the cookie cutter HB build lol...

which is exactly why I don't pug. My guild mates are willing to put up with my running of stupid builds... sometimes.

Direct Damage = weak. Not enough. Smite support = win.

farmpig · Apr 27, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

which is exactly why I don't pug. My guild mates are willing to put up with my running of stupid builds... sometimes.

Direct Damage = weak. Not enough. Smite support = win.

lol i am in a 1 man guild. Makes no difference, when u log on its like 3/80 present. Even if I said "hi" in guild chat I get SILENCE lol.

Smite support with smiters boon and high divine prayers provide good passive healing. I feel that with the heros AI it could go a long way. Need to test that out though.